Marvin Shilmer

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Posts by Marvin Shilmer

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  54

  How do you overcome this JW excuse?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  during one of those meetings that took place before my jc, one of the elders, who was a good friend of mine back then and used to come up with a few outlandish personal views about some teachings, attempted to counter one of my arguments like this:.

  eden - "well, if the truth doesn't change, why is it that what we teach as 'truth' has changed over the years (several examples given)?

  how can we dogmatically claim at any given moment that we have 'the truth' if our teachings keep changing?".

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  Marvin Shilmer

  I would simply blink my eyes, smile and say, "You're scaring me!"

  That's perfect!!!
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  54

  How do you overcome this JW excuse?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  during one of those meetings that took place before my jc, one of the elders, who was a good friend of mine back then and used to come up with a few outlandish personal views about some teachings, attempted to counter one of my arguments like this:.

  eden - "well, if the truth doesn't change, why is it that what we teach as 'truth' has changed over the years (several examples given)?

  how can we dogmatically claim at any given moment that we have 'the truth' if our teachings keep changing?".

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  Marvin Shilmer

  Elder - "The Organization is only wrong when we look back and see that Jehovah corrected its course. So, it's only wrong in retrospect, never at present time. If Jehovah allows for a teaching or procedure to persist, it's because He wants it that way, therefore it can Never be wrong at any time in present time".

  That reasoning would mean every religious organization on the face of planet earth teaches "The Truth."

  What this man is guilty of is properly termed rationalization. You can't reason with someone who's content to rationalize and call it rational.
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  29

  Could the allowance of blood fractions be curtailing the growth of the religion?

  by Apognophos in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  so, imagine that you're just a regular joe who's not familiar with the witnesses and is looking for the answers to life, the universe, and everything.

  you hear a knock at your door.

  before long, you are studying with a jehovah's witness.

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  Marvin Shilmer

  I asked the question from an elder/circuit overseer substitute: Where in the Bible can we find support to accept fractions? He said, "I will get back to you".

  In year 2000 Watchtower published the GB's reason for not prohibiting blood "fractions" (such as cryoprecipitate, cryosupernatant, albumin and a long, long list of other blood derivatives) saying, "The Bible does not give details, so a Christian must make his own conscientious decision before God."

  So I asked a then CO "Where does the Bible give details about white cells isolated from blood so a Christian knows accepting this from blood is wrong?

  He looked at me with a blank stare and replied, "We have the faithful slave to help us understand that issue". I pressed the issue saying "Yes. I understand the slave gives us its conclusion that accepting white cells is wrong, but what biblical text gives any more detail about white cells compared with cryoprecipitate so we know accepting one is definitely wrong whereas accepting the other may not definitely be wrong?"

  He recommended I pray about it. I told him I had prayed mightily about it and so far had not gotten an answer. He suggested that perhaps my prayers were being hindered due to my critical perspective...
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  24

  No words

  by mikeypants in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so, i'm visiting family this week who are all jws.

  yesterday, it started with one of them talking about a co giving her some points on time keeping for service.

  she is now writing a letter before she drives to service, so she can count her drive time.

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  Marvin Shilmer

  Another anecdote:

  CO comes to town telling publishers “It’s not about the time”.

  Next CO comes to town telling elders “Congregation hours are down. What’s going on?” He then gives speeches during meetings for FS about how to “start” your hours using clever rationalizations (like writing a note to leave at a not-at-homes just before you leave home to come to the KH for FS, and dropping a magazine somewhere enroute to meetings for GS). All this is shared under the rationale of “making your time count” (meaning: find a way to get your hours up with clever ways of soothing your consciences).

  Next CO comes to town telling publishers “It’s not about the time”.

  And it goes on…
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  24

  No words

  by mikeypants in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so, i'm visiting family this week who are all jws.

  yesterday, it started with one of them talking about a co giving her some points on time keeping for service.

  she is now writing a letter before she drives to service, so she can count her drive time.

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  Marvin Shilmer

  The time hedging thing always amazed me.

  One CO recommended a pioneer stop by a local laundromat and leave a magazine on her way to meetings for field service at the KH. The laundry was downstairs from her apartment. The KH was nearly a 1-hour drive. When she met at the KH guess where publishers would always be sent for FS (in order to help out the pioneer sister who would otherwise have to put even more miles on her auto!)? Yep. Right back to her neighborhood. She clocked 2 hours just coming and going.

  So inefficient, and such a waste of time, talent and resources. And it had nothing whatsoever about loving your neighbor as yourself.

  One of the then publishers who'd regularly make the trip to sister-pioneer's neighborhood (to help her out!!!) turned out to be a pedophile. He was looking for victims in FS. This was back in the early 1970s. Those kids had no idea the advice of a CO helping a pioneed hedge her hours was in the chain of events that led to their exposure.
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  26

  Plymouth Herald: Mother reveals torment as JW is jailed for sexually abusing her daughter

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  see original thread here on jwn: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/child-abuse/288910/3/jehovahe28099s-witness-elder-jailed-for-12-years-for-multiple-sexual-offences-against-young-girl.

  http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/mother-reveals-torment-jehovah-s-witness-jailed/story-25741246-detail/story.html.

  mother reveals torment as jehovah's witness is jailed for sexually abusing her daughter.

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  Marvin Shilmer

  So hurting to know such monsters are around and hurting the most vulnerable amongst us. So hurting...

  Thanks Barbara. It takes tremendous wherewithal to keep going on the mission you've taken on to help children!
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  14

  "Jehovah has helped “the faithful and discreet slave” to become steadily more discreet"

  by EndofMysteries in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  "as we might expect, over the years jehovah has helped the faithful and discreet slave to become steadily more discreet.

  " 3/2015 study wt.

  i guess they just admitted their self title as the discreet slave was not discreet.

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  Marvin Shilmer

  "As we might expect, over the years Jehovah has helped “the faithful and discreet slave” to become steadily more discreet."--3/2015 Study WT

  My question is this:

  Why did it take Jehovah over one-hundred years to help the “the faithful and discreet slave” to know WHAT it was a spokesperson FOR?

  See Mother of All Mistakes!: http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com/2012/11/mother-of-all-mistakes.html

  How credible can you be if you DON'T KNOW WHAT you are supposedly speaking in behalf of and have gotten that simple fact wrong for a century?
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  8

  1973 Release from Liability form

  by Marvin Shilmer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  today i added a new article to my blog.

  it will appeal to readers interested in historical documentation of watchtower blood doctrine.

  it contains an image of a very rare document from the early 1970s stipulating what jehovah's witnesses do not allow.

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  Marvin Shilmer

  I wonder what the ratio was of preventable deaths vs. the risk of HIV, even in those days.

  A highly susceptible at-risk patient population during those days was hemophiliacs. JW patients suffering with hemophilia not protected from AIDS as a bloodborne pathagen because under Watchtower doctrine JWs were then accepting the blood "fractions" used to treat the condition.

  This represents another misrepresentation of facts by Watchtower. See Facts 3a and 3B at:

  http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com/2010/04/watchtower-blood-doctrine-facts.html

  Here's another example of the similar gross misrepresentation in relation to transfusion related risk:

  http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com/2012/05/death-from-trali.html
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  8

  1973 Release from Liability form

  by Marvin Shilmer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  today i added a new article to my blog.

  it will appeal to readers interested in historical documentation of watchtower blood doctrine.

  it contains an image of a very rare document from the early 1970s stipulating what jehovah's witnesses do not allow.

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  Marvin Shilmer

  The volume the form document was lifted from contains an opening article originally published in Ethicon (Volume 10, No. 7) Can't say I've ever heard of the publication titled Ethicon, but the article is authored by Dr. Dixon who at the time was medical director at Watchtower headquarters in Brooklyn NY. This article by Dixon is layered with fallacy and assumption of things the Bible is completely silent about. It boggles the mind to realize how an educated adult could let him or herself write such claptrap. It's as if he accepted what came from Watchtower without the slightest bit of corroboration!
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  8

  1973 Release from Liability form

  by Marvin Shilmer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  today i added a new article to my blog.

  it will appeal to readers interested in historical documentation of watchtower blood doctrine.

  it contains an image of a very rare document from the early 1970s stipulating what jehovah's witnesses do not allow.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  Marvin Shilmer

  Today I added a new article to my blog. It will appeal to readers interested in historical documentation of Watchtower blood doctrine. It contains an image of a very rare document from the early 1970s stipulating what Jehovah's Witnesses do not allow. The document is titled Release From Liability and can be viewed at:

  http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com/2014/12/1973-release-from-liability-form.html